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From Hit List Magazine: Some bands gain widespread underground recognition by making great records, others do so through the strength of their live performances. Some bands earn respect simply through the plain hard work of heavy touring and a life away from home. Rarely cam all of these things be said of the same band, but Berkeley's AFI is an exception. An overseas publication once mistakenly attributed the words "Aggressive, Furious, Intense" to the initials that comprise their name. These adjectives all describe their music accurately, but it is also at times somber, melodic and beautiful. Not content to stand still artistically, they still possess the same manic energy they did when they first burst onto the East Bay punk scene via 924 Gilman Street in the middle of last decade; AFI has also forged ahead musically into new territory with each release, pushing the limits of the hardcore punk genre and redefining it in the process. I've had the privilege of watching this evolution from their first performance in a living room almost ten years ago to their latest brilliant performance in a hall packed with their rabid following-their last before entering the studio to record a new album due out this fall. On a beautiful Berkeley spring day near March's end, I sat with the band in the dimly lit room of lead singer Davey Havok that is known as "The Clavet" (closet + cave), for a conversation on all things past, present and future in the world of one of the most exciting bands in underground music today. - Nick 13 Nick: Okay, let's start with the rank and file: names, instruments. Davey: I'm Davey Havok, I sing. Nick: Okay. I'm sure you've all been asked this question a thousand times, here's your chance to answer it once and for all, if you wish. What do the letters "A-F-I" mean? Davey: A Fire Inside. Nick: Okay, I guess that settles that once and for all. Maybe it used to mean something else, maybe it didn't. That's what it means now, there you go. Okay now, Brett has asked me for a long interview. With this in mind, let's go all the way back to the beginning. Tell me about the earliest days of AFI. Adam: Um, AFI was conceived when we were in high school, we were sophomores. I think Dave and our original guitarist Mark were sitting around at lunch and came up with the idea of starting a band, which is kinda funny because no one knew how to play any instruments, no one really owned any instruments, but they decided it was going to be Dave singing, Mark playing guitar, Vic Chalker on bass, and they knew I had a drum set so I was asked to play drums. And we just started practicing. It was a long time before we played our first show, it was several years before we wrote a decent song. [laughter] Nick: Okay, and your thoughts on it, Dave? You started jamming, eventually you started playing shows in your hometown area... Davey: Yeah, yeah. Adam had it pretty much to the "T" there, I mean we were sitting around and bored, you know - didn't have anything to do living in Ukiah other than skateboarding and listening to music, and so, Influence 13 did it, so we figured we'd give it a shot. And yeah, so we just started writing songs and we played our first public performance I think at Skippy's house, if I remember correctly that was the first one... We played, I think we had about six songs. Adam: We played them three times each, I think. Davey: Yeah, we played six songs each three times I think, much to dismay of everybody at the party. Nick: I was into it... Davey: Except for yourself, I think. [laughter] Yeah, that was... that was it. Nick: So that's high school. And then you kept playing, things got a little more serious, you guys released some seven inches [vinyl 45's] yourselves... Davey: Yeah, we released-the first seven inches we released ourselves, the first being a split with Loose Change, Jade's band. Geoff joined on bass shortly before we released it. And we did that, then we released "Behind The Times" and "Eddie Picnic's All Wet" all ourselves. Actually "Eddie Picnic's All Wet" was released after we played a reunion show- we broke up for a short period of time. After Adam and Mark and I had graduated from high school, we broke up, and then that year, around Christmastime when everyone was home visiting their families, we were encouraged to do a reunion show, even though before then, no one cared about us at all. Every time we would play, I mean with the exception of yourself and Jade [laughter] and a few other people, no one really had much interest in us. But some of the kids in Santa Rosa and Petaluma were saying that our seven inches since we had broken up had been selling really well at the local record store in Santa Rosa, and they said we should play a reunion show, so we did. And it was great, it was the first time that I remember a bunch of kids singing along and knowing our lyrics, which was definitely one of the best feelings ever, and we were like "Whoa, this is great. This is what we want we want to do for the rest of our lives." You know, "We're gonna keep doing this. We're gonna keep going." Nick: So that's when you knew that the band was what you wanted to dedicate your lives to... Davey: Absolutely, it was-I mean, before we played that reunion show, we really never thought we could do anything. We really didn't think it could be anything serious, we were just doing it because we love it. And we still do it because we love it. Luckily, other people have come to appreciate it. And it was at that point we said "Yeah," you know, "This is so much fun, there is nothing else that is going to make us as happy as doing this, there is nothing that is going to be as satisfying as this, you know, "Fuck school, fuck work, let's do this. This is what it's all about." Nick: Okay, cool. So at this point, AFI kind of reforms, this time based in the Bay Area. The East Bay. Davey: Correct. Davey: Like Cloyne Court and the
Chateaux... Davey: A really seminal show for us was our first show at Gilman Street that we were actually booked on the show. I mean, I think we jumped on stage once and played a couple songs at a show that Rancid was playing. I think that we were all there... Adam: It was Rancid-oh, the show that you're talking about, in June of '94 was Rancid, Total Chaos, the Parasites... Davey: No, that's not the show-I mean that show that I was talking about was the show that we jumped on stage? Do you remember doing that? We played like two songs... Adam: That was Rancid and like Chickenhead or something. Davey: Yeah, something. But anyway, yes, the Rancid/Total Chaos/Hellbillys show was-and Parasites played that too, was, you know, our first confirmed show at Gilman Street, and that was... that really was great. It was a great show, of course, our friends Rancid put us on that bill, and from that point on people paid attention to us. They put us in front of a lot of kids who were very receptive, and after that, people decided that they would come see us every once in a while. [laughter] Nick: So you guys built up a following at Gilman Street, and in the East Bay in general, and that led to the recording of the first album. Davey: Yeah... Nick: Tell us about that. Davey: We recorded out first album for Wingnut Records; this guy Josh decided to start a label. I don't know if he decided to start it for Screw 32, but he decided to start a label, and he was signing Screw 32, and he was putting out a record with them. And Doug (Sanglang- former Screw 32, Limp, Big Rig and Dread guitarist, now fronting One Time Angels) was telling me that "We're doing this record on Wingnut, and I bet he would really want to put your record out, you know, put out a record for you guys," and we were like "Okay, cool." And we met him and we talked with him and he said "Yeah, we'll put out a record for you." And they did. [laughter] Adam: I think he intended the label to be, you know, a decent label. Davey: Yeah. Adam: I think he has good intentions. However his... Davey: His business sense wasn't there. Adam: Exactly. It got to the point where we were going on tour and we needed our records, and we couldn't get our records, and everything just sort of fell apart for him. He's since been asked to not sell our record, and I know he-I believe he still does. Davey: Yeah, it was really easy for him to not have them when we were on the label, but now that he's not supposed to sell them, he does an okay job of selling them, I think, [laughter] from what I hear. Nick: And you guys don't get paid for that, right? Davey: No, any records sold by Wingnut or purchased that are on Wingnut, we don't see any royalties for that, and we haven't for years and years and years... Adam: And we barely ever did. Nick: Okay, so how did Nitro Records, Bryan Holland from the Offspring's label, come into the picture? Davey: Well, they had heard us, we had sent them a demo tape long before our first album was ever recorded, and then I think after the first CD came out, they got a hold of that-this guy Jason who used to work there and listened to incoming stuff got a hold of it and really liked it. And he called me up at my house one day and said that he was really excited about it, and that he thought that Dexter would really like it, and wanted to know if we'd be interested in having him playing it for Dexter, and if we'd be interested in being on Nitro at all if Dexter was interested, and I said "Yeah, sure. Go ahead." And Dexter listened to us, really liked it. He asked to meet with us, which he did at a show at the Palace shortly thereafter. And we all met with him and talked to him. He was a really nice guy, and having been in a punk band for a large part of his life and knowing what it was like to have very few people care about you and struggle doing really small tours, he knew exactly where we were coming from. I mean, the Offspring wasn't always selling millions and millions of records. I mean, there was a time when they couldn't draw more than, you know, sixty to a hundred kids at Gilman Street. And so he knew what it was like and he seemed really cool, so we decided to go with his label. Nick: Cool. So the band found a home at Nitro Records. They re-released your first record, they released your second album, "Very Proud Of Ya", and at this point, after touring on the record, Geoff leaves the band, correct? Davey: Correct. Geoff's final tour was the Sick Of It All tour, right Adam? Adam: Right. We started that tour with I think fourteen shows with the Offspring. He quit on the first on that tour, but he finished the tour. Davey: Which was good. Adam: We were scheduled to have a few weeks off, and then do another tour with the Offspring. And we were without a bass player, so we asked Hunter... Hunter: That's me. [laughter] Adam: ...if he would be interested in filling in. Nick: So this is when Hunter hooks up with the band. What was it like for you, Hunter, coming into the fold and playing bass on the "Shut Your Mouth" album and all the tours surrounding that? Hunter: It was crazy. It was like, you know, I've been in plenty of bands (including Badical Turbo Radness!- Ed.), but it was completely different than any other band I'd been in before... For me it was just an amazing opportunity, as a temporary bass player, to be able to tour with a band like the Offspring, you know, suddenly, after I'd just played really small crummy shows. And to suddenly be put in front of these crowds that I've never played in front of before-it's just like an amazing opportunity. I thought that this was like, "This is the best thing." And then of course when it was over, I was kinda "It's too bad this is over," but when I was asked to record on "Shut Your Mouth" sessions, and I thought "Well, you know, another great opportunity. I get to be a session bass player..." Nick: And then of course, you were asked to join the band as a permanent member, and you've been here ever since. Hunter: Exactly. Nick: Okay. So, at some point, the original guitarist Mark is no longer in the band. Any words you'd like to say about that situation? Davey: It just became painfully clear that Mark was no longer interested in being in the band on any level. He wasn't interested in being with the band members, he wasn't interested in touring or playing shows. So there was really no question as to what was going to happen. Nick: Okay and then that brings us to Jade. Jade, you're the most recent addition to the band. When did you start playing guitar for AFI? Jade: Oh, I think it was November '98 was when I...[stops] Nick: Okay, you joined the band. You played on "Black Sails In The Sunset," as well as the "All Hallows" CD-EP, but AFI is far from your first band. For people who may not be as familiar with you as they are with the other members, tell us about your musical history, maybe some of the bands you've been in... Jade: Well, I've been in I guess four bands including AFI. Influence 13 was the first one, when I was in high school, a little bit after... That was with you, you know... [laughter] Nick: That's right, I remember that. [laughter] Jade: Geoff Kresge, before he was Kresge, and a couple of guys from our hometown. And that was fun. We played in the early 90's, we played with Green Day when they were coming up, that was kind of our high point, I think. Then I was in and kind of still am in Loose Change. I haven't played any shows for a while, but they're, they have a record, we have a record on Coldfront. And I was in Redemption 87, which I'm sure some of you might remember... Nick: With Eric Ozenne, now in the Nerve Agents... Jade: The Nerve Agents, yeah. "Sherrick D." And now AFI. Nick: Now, your sound has undergone some evolution since the early days, and even since the first two LPs. How would you all describe the changes in your sound, from then until now? Davey: I think the song-writing has become far more complex, far more advanced and mature from looking at say the earliest seven-inch to "All Hallows". For me, lyrically I've become more comfortable with what I'm writing now. The lyrics have become less frivolous than they were. They hold more meaning to me now than they ever have in the past. Nick: What do you attribute that to? Davey: I attribute that to just kind of getting really bored-I mean in the beginning, the first lyrics I was writing was when I was fifteen or sixteen years old, so my interests were a little bit different then they are now, and some of the lyrics were funny. At the time I was writing those lyrics, you had the Vandals, you had NOFX and D.I., and there were a lot of bands who were writing lighthearted funny or satirical lyrics, and that was appealing to me at the time, so there was a little of that which could be seen in my lyric writing. For me, all of those bands did that style well and pulled it off, but for my own lyrics-well, they were meant to be funny, I don't know if anybody thought they were really funny. [laughter] They were really lighthearted lyrics, and really quickly that became very boring for me to write and to sing those lyrics, because for me, when I was on stage and I was putting everything into the singing and into the performance and screaming my heart out, to be singing about cereal or bowling, I mean it's just like "Wow, this is stupid." You know, "This is just lame." [laughter] Nick: Mm-hmm. And the rest of you? Any thoughts on AFI's musical progression in the last couple of years? Adam: I think anytime a band undergoes lineup changes, there's going to be drastic changes in the evolution of the band. I think that we were headed this direction, but I think with the addition of Hunter and Jade, who are principal songwriters, that it has most everything to do with them. Nick: Okay, now, there's been much talk about a "darker" direction in AFI's music and lyrics. What's behind this? Davey: Lyrically, as I've said, I've steered away from the lighthearted lyrics, and my lyrics have become more introspective and more based on my personal experiences. And I think that, in this world, if you do not recognize the darker side, then you are completely walking through this world blinded. I mean, not to sound generic, it's just the truth. You have to recognize both the lighter side and the dark side in order for there to be a balance. Also, at times I think that which is perceived to be dark or evil or negative is in fact the complete opposite, the antithesis of that. I think that, in our culture, in the Western world here, things have been misconstrued and misunderstood at times, and I think actually that a lot of the stuff we do is considered dark may fall under the category as well. Nick: I see. Okay now, you guys are getting ready in about a week's time to go into the studio and record your fifth full-length album, correct? Davey: Correct. Nick: Tell us about it... Jade: We don't want to give anything away, but... [laughter] We're pretty happy with it, we think it's a pretty natural progression, it's not anything out-of-the-blue. We think it's just better. Nick: Okay. Can you give us an album title, or is it too early? Davey: I'm gonna hold off on revealing the title for now, but I think it (the new album) seems like an extension of the "All Hallows" EP. It's hard to describe for me. It's always hard for me to describe our music. It sounds like AFI to me. [laughter] Nick: Okay, and that's gonna be recorded starting in April? Adam: Yeah. I think on this collection of songs, at least songs that Jade wrote-Jade and Dave got together and came up with a more complete song. In the past, there was a lot of brainstorming with the entire band, but this time a lot of songs were really close to being complete before they were even shown to Hunter or I. And it was actually interesting, because I could see exactly what they were trying to do, and in a way it helped, at least for me... it helped me to choose my parts. But I really think that the teamwork that they had to create the songs, they're more based around the vocals, and I think that's important. I think it was really successful... Jade: Yeah, I think it's kind of along the same lines as "Black Sails," like... Nick: You were writing a lot of the actual music. Jade: Well, me and Dave usually... You know, we'll get together in my room. I think maybe I got together with myself a little more in this one. [laughter] Like, I didn't want to go out on my own too much on "Black Sails," 'cause I was new in the band and I didn't want to, like, just take a bunch of chances with a band that was already there. I didn't want to go too far and screw things up... Nick: I see. Jade: ...On accident, not meaning to. [laughter] So I made sure that a lot of stuff I wrote, you know, Dave was there. But, I think, with working together, just trying to come up with the bare bones of stuff and making sure the music and the melodies come together at the same time is the best method. I mean, it's like tried and true so far. Davey: Yeah. I mean, we'd sit there and work on stuff, and sometimes we'd get stuff that would-boom-like right away, "Okay, there's a song." You know, it's gonna be cool, it's gonna sound good. And then sometimes there'd be stuff that we'd work out almost in entirety that would never make it to the practice pad at all, that Adam and Hunter had never even heard cause we decided it sucked [laughter] before we even got out there. Nick: So, you two worked together on a lot of the stuff, but you (speaking to Davey) don't play any instruments, right? Davey: Yeah, that's right. Jade: He tries to pick up my guitar sometimes [laughter], but I have to snatch it out of his hands before he causes any damage. [laughter] He plays a couple of atonal parts that quickly get left in the fuckin' garbage can. Davey: Yeah, I can't play a thing at all. I cannot play an instrument. I do a lot of "nah-nah-nah, doo-doo-doo" kinda stuff. [laughter] Jade: A lot of parts, I had a tape recorder with me on the Sick Of It All tour. It was a really long tour, so when I got back I had a lot of parts that I wanted to use into songs, so i'm kinda happy with that. Like, everything I wanted to do, I've kinda done, so... Nick: That's cool. So the vocal melodies, does Dave come up with those, or do you both come up with them? Jade: I think we kinda work together on that. Davey: Yeah, yeah. Jade: Because a lot of times, I'll have ideas already for vocal melodies, like, you know, if I write a part and I'm by myself, it's just natural to think of vocal melodies. And so I'll run those by Dave and we'll work with them, tweak them a little bit. And then he always has good ideas for melodies, of course. Davey: Yeah, some of the stuff is straight Jade, some of the stuff is straight me, some of the stuff is combination, just as far as melody goes. I mean, some stuff I'll think "Oh wait, did I write that melody or did Jade write that melody?" I don't know. [laughter] Nick: So basically, you guys just get together and it goes from there. Davey: Yeah. Nick: Now, if you each had to pick a song to play live, what would it be? One song. Adam: Well, it used to be "God Called In Sick," but I think I'm leaning more toward "Totalimmortal," which we've just recently put into our set. It's fun to play. Nick: (Johnny Carson voice)- "Totalimmortal". [laughter, apologies to the readers for introducing one of those reoccurring inside jokes that annoy me to no end in interviews I read.] Davey: (Johnny Carson voice) "Fall Children." Nick: Dave, what's your favorite song to play live? Davey: I think "God Called In Sick Today" is probably still my favorite. Jade: "God Called In Sick," but I'm leaning a little bit towards "Fall Children" a little bit. Hunter: I don't know, dude. It used to be "Half-Empty Bottle," like three years ago. [laughter] That's all I can remember. Yeah, I like "Totalimmortal," just because we haven't really been able to play that until recently. Nick: Okay. Now, if we weren't talking about the songs as being played live, but strictly as creations, what's your favorite AFI song? Hunter: Jesus...(sound of crickets chirping, then-) Mine's "Totalimmortal." Jade: Yeah, I might have to agree. Davey: Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree, too. Yeah, either "God" or I think "Totalimmortal." Yeah. Nick: Adam's thinking. [laughter] Adam: I really can't narrow it down. Nick: Okay, fair enough. If someone was gonna pick up one AFI release, which one would you want it to be? Which one are you most proud of? Davey: "Black Sails." Nick: Okay. What kinds of thing outside of music influence the band, be it art, authors, movies, comics...? Davey: Yeah, comics. [laughter] As horribly nerdy as it sounds, for me. I read these titles by a guy named Jhonen Vasquez and a guy named Roman Dirge, and this comic called "Gloomcookie" by Ted Naifeh and Serena Valentino. I really enjoy those comics a lot, and they actually do have a lot to say. A lot of them do. Nick: Anyone else? Anything that's not a band or a record, that somehow influences what you do when it comes to music? Adam: I'm just the drummer, man. [laughter] Hunter: I don't know, maybe this might technically fall into the category of music, but I go see movies almost every day. That influences me in a way, you know, I try to pull some of the cinema into the music. Nick: I hear you. What are your favorite movies? Hunter: My favorite would be North By Northwest... Nick: Hitchcock. Hunter: ...directed by Hitchcock. Davey: I love a lot of stuff by Tim Burton. Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands... Jade: Cool Runnings. [laughter] Davey: ...The Nightmare Before Christmas. Nick: Did Burton do Cool Runnings? [laughter] Jade: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Nick: I thought he did, yeah. Adam: How about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Davey: I really like the John Hughes films. John Hughes' stuff is really good. And then, other 80's movies like- Jade: The Breakfast Club. Hunter: How many favorites do you have, man? [laughter] Davey: Lost Boys. Nick: Yeah, the question was your favorite movie, Dave. Or maybe some of your favorites, but not every movie you've ever seen in your life. [laughter] Davey: Sorry. Nick: Jade, favorite movies? Jade: I don't have such an impressive favorite movies list. Mine's more along the lines of Caddyshack [laughter]. Breakfast Club, Red Dawn. Nick: So you're kind of on the 80's trip. Jade: Oh, yeah. Of course. Adam: Yeah, I think I am as well. John Hughes films. Indiana Jones trilogy. Nick: Remo Williams? Adam: Indiana Jones. [pause, then laughter] Jade: Yeah, Remo Williams... Nick: How about Alan Quartermain? Adam: Yeah, Alan Quartermain and the Lost City of Gold. [laughter] Jade: I'm also backing anything by Chuck Norris. Davey: Word. Jade: Forced Vengeance, Invasion U.S.A., Delta Force... Davey: Oh, you know what? We have to qualify John Hughes films as the early-to-mid-80's John Hughes films. I was informed of that recently. I guess he went on to make some crappy films. [laughter] Nick: Yeah, who cares about John Hughes in the 90's? [laughter] Adam: Fuck that guy. [laughter] Jade: Ho! [laughter] Nick: Poor John. [laughter] While we're speaking about art in a sense, tell us about your association with Alan Forbes, the artist of some of your recent album covers. Davey: Alan Forbes has done the art for us for "Black Sails In The Sunset" and the "All Hallows" EP. He also did a record-release poster for the "Black Sails In The Sunset" release shows. And he's just our friend, he's a really cool guy that does great work, and he's going to be working on the new one as well. He's going to be doing the front and back covers, and then also a few different images on the inside. Nick: Interesting. So, it would seem like his work strikes a chord with you or relates to your music. Davey: Yeah. He's... the reason I was interested in him at first was I saw a lot of his rock-art posters that were up in store windows, and I always liked his stuff a lot because, thematically, he based it on the macabre or spooky stuff-monsters-and he did bands like Bauhaus and the Cramps and the Misfits. And it wasn't hot-roddy, like most of the poster art these days. And he really stood out to me, and I thought "Wow, that guy's really cool, it'd be cool if he did a poster for us someday." And then it just came that he was willing to do album covers for us. Nick: I see. That's cool. That brings me to something else... Dave, why did you "go Goth?" [laughter] You used to have a mohawk-and you had those Korn-style braids for awhile... Davey: I hate you. [laughter] Nick: Okay. Now, you've done some interesting tours since I last interviewed you for a zine called Six Point Mutiny, including a tour opening for the legendary Danzig and Samhain. If you guys could tell us about that experience... Davey: It was a crazy experience. It was really cool, it goes without saying. We got to tour with Danzig and Samhain and that was just amazing. Just being able to see Samhain and Danzig perform every night, they were so powerful, Danzig singing both sets flawlessly. It was great, it was such a great show. And it was a really great experience to be able to play to their crowd, which is a really different crowd than we've ever gotten to play before. And for the most part, I think we went over really well. I've said before there were a couple people yelling "faggot" at me every night, but it was only like one or two... [pauses] ... instead of like groups of people chanting it. [laughter] And, at the same time, there were a large group of people who I think really enjoyed us, who had never seen us before. And, also, every night, which was really, really cool and made us feel really good, was there were a very large group of kids-of our kids, of AFI kids-who came out just to see us. Every night, there'd be a huge group up front singing along. And after the shows, these kids would come up to me and say things like "You guys were really good, I've never heard Danzig or Samhain, what are they like?" or "I don't like Danzig or Samhain, I came just to see you guys," which not only was amazing to me because I can't understand why anyone wouldn't like Danzig or Samhain or not have heard of them, but at the same time, these kids were coming and going out of their way to see us play for twenty minutes. And that made us feel really good. Adam: Just before that tour, we came off the "Life On The Ropes" tour, which was also enjoyable. It was Sick Of It All, Hot Water Music, Indecision and us. And that tour was... what was it, like six weeks or something? Davey: Yeah. Adam: And the camaraderie and the friendships that were started because of that tour was... it was just great. It was probably one of the best tours we've ever done. Davey: Absolutely. That tour that Adam was talking about, that was one of the best times of my life. It was so fun. Everyone had such a good time together, and we became friends immediately, and it was just like hanging out with your friends every day and getting to play shows at the same time. Really good shows. Adam: And see three incredible bands. Nick: Sounds great. Now, the Danzig/Samhain tour... was that a lot different than all the other tours you've done? Adam: Yeah, absolutely. It was more of a production. It was definitely a rock show. There were many people on the tour-crew members, people in the bands, that we didn't interact with as much, but there were also lots of people on the crew that were really helpful and nice. But it was just a different vibe, just a different way of touring, you know? Nick: Mm-hmm. Did you meet Glenn? Davey: Yes. I got to speak with Glenn. I think I got to speak with him like three times, really talk with him. And he was really cool. He's kind of elusive, he's hard to find. [laughter] But, when he was around, he would talk to me, and he was really nice. The rest of the guys were around a lot, and Lazie would take pictures of us every night. And we had known London before we had gone on tour with Samhain, having met him like a year of a year-and-a-half before, and we became even better friends with him. He's a great guy, and we still talk. Jade: And Dave almost backed our tour van into Danzig's bus while Danzig was on the bus, which Danzig saw. [laughter] Davey: Okay-I don't even-they don't let me drive the van, for this reason exactly. But none of them are around, and some security guy's yelling at me to move the van, so I'm like "Okay, well I think I can..." All I had to do was back it up a couple feet. I'm like "I think I can handle this." So, of course I get in the van, and I seriously get inches away from backing our trailer into Danzig's bus while he's sitting in the window looking out, and he came out of the bus... Nick: Not a good thing. [laughter] Davey: No, I was terrified, but the security guard totally helped me out, and explained that I didn't hit it. Nick: So Danzig hates you guys. Jade: That's true. Davey: Now he does. [laughter] No, actually, he was really cool when I was talking to him. I think he knew... it was funny, because I was really kind of nervous talking to him, because he was a big influence on me. Everything he's done, I love so much and really I wouldn't be doing what I was today if I had never heard his music. Nick: So he is an influence. Davey: Oh, huge influence. Huge influence. And, when I was talking to him, you know, I was just like "Wow, this is really cool." [laughter] I was a total fanboy. And I think he could tell, so he was especially nice to me. Nick: That's cool. What other bands kind of inspired you guys when you were growing up? Adam: I'd have to say Rancid was a big influence on us. Part Musically, but also because they were very willing to... they were just really helpful. They taught us a lot, mostly just by observing them, we could see sort of the right things to do. We used to see them a long time ago, when they were a much smaller band, and were able to watch how they handled getting bigger and how they handled their success. And, though we haven't gotten close to the size they are, we were able to learn from their decisions. And I can't think of a band that had helped us, has had our back so much and continues to have our back. Davey: Going to a Rancid show was and is awesome. I mean, it was always awesome for us. We'd be looking forward to it every weekend. I mean, you remember, we'd at least- well, not every weekend- but at least once a month, whenever we could, they'd be playing at Gilman Street and we'd drive down. And watching them is like watching no other band. I mean, you see them and you're like "This is awesome, this is amazing." Their force as a band is undeniable and seeing them is just like "This is great". And it just-what Adam was saying-it was like "We have to continue to be in this band, and we have to continue to do this band." They were just really inspiring, to be at their shows. And it was just so fun. So great. And, like Adam said-we became friends with them, and they have done everything for us. Everything. And continue to do everything for us. Nick: Much respect. Davey: Yes, much respect. Nick: Jade and Hunter... early punk inspirations? Not necessarily just influences... Inspirations, either live or on record? Jade: There's probably too many to name. It would be like a real-time story. [laughter] Nick: Hit me with a few of them, just off the top of your head. Jade: Youth Of Today, Bad Religion, Minor Threat, Misfits... Davey: Flag. Jade: Black Flag, of course. Davey: The Germs. Jade: Not so much the Germs, for me. Davey: Sorry. For me. [laughter] Nick: Hunter? Hunter: Well, a lot of the same bands. I also listened to a lot of late 80's Bay Area stuff in high school like Filth, or Operation Ivy, of course... Jade: Yes. Crimpshrine... Hunter: Crimpshrine, and Blatz... Jade: Green Day. Davey: Samiam. Jade: Jawbreaker Nick: Word. All right. Adam, you're usually hidden back there behind the drums and, as a consequence, you're the least visible member of the band. [laughter] What's Adam Carson all about? What kind of things are you interested in? Adam: It's about all areas. [laughter] Nick: Let's see, that was my next question. Is it about all areas? [laughter] Adam: You know, at the time I'm not sure it was. But nowadays, it's definitely about all areas. Nick: Is it now? Adam: Yeah. Jade: We like to get stupid in the area. [laughter] Nick: Okay. Adam: What was the question? Nick: The question is, you know, who's Adam Carson? What's he into? [laughter] Adam: You know, I couldn't answer this question last time, and I'm gonna have a hard time with it again. Jade: He's too biased. [laughter] Adam: I really couldn't nail it down. Nick: Okay. Well, let's talk about me, then. [laughter] Now, you've been a long time honorary member of Tiger Army. You play the drums on the self-titled Tiger Army album. What was it like working with Nick 13? Is he a genius, as some say? [Some roll their eyes, others smile and others simply sigh and look dejected-they've heard it before.] Adam: Well... I think it was enjoyable. It was a little different because, with AFI, I have complete creative freedom. I mean, obviously, if I'm doing something crazy wack, they're going to tell me to tone it down. But usually, I try to strike a balance between playing the songs and really trying to find out what the songs are doing and making sure I don't get in the way, but also having a small part of my parts having a little bit of creativity and a little bit of flavor and doing something interesting. Nick: And on the Tiger Army record, you just didn't give a shit? Adam: No... [laughter] with the Tiger Army record, you were very precise about what you wanted to hear, so I tried to sneak things in, but, inevitably, the drums were real stripped down. And I think, as a result, it worked really well. I think the songs really flow well, and I definitely don't get in the way. And also, it's more difficult with psychobilly- you have the stand-up bass providing a lot of percussion-and the drums can fuck with that balance, they can get in the way of what's going on rhythmically with the stand-up bass. So it was best for me to just put down a solid beat. I hope I did that. Nick: You did. Enough about Tiger Army... But Adam is definitely a very versatile and talented drummer, and probably underrated. I don't know if drummers get the credit they deserve. [doorbell buzzes] Hunter: Does that mean the time is up? [laughter] Jade: No, it was like "Wrong." [laughter] Adam: Survey says... Davey: Survey says... [Davey makes buzzing sound] Nick: Sorry. I tried, Adam. [laughter] Okay, now you guys recently did a very cool surprise show with the Nerve Agents at the Bottom Of The Hill, under an assumed name, and that was a great gig. And you played a couple other recent Northern California gigs. It seemed like your set list showed a lot of variation in all of these gigs-playing some new songs that haven't been played live... Davey: Yeah, we figured since we were playing places that were so close together that we would change the set list up a little bit, just because we knew a lot of people would be coming to more than one of the shows. Which I think was the case, so I think we ended up playing most of the songs we know how to play between the shows. Nick: There's of course the infamous cover of Rancid's "Rejected," with an appearance by Lars Frederiksen... Davey: Yes we, as "The Boys Who Destroyed The World," actually covered "Rejected" and I believe Lars came up and played Jade's guitar with Jade. Nick: That was cool. Davey: And we, for the second of the consecutive Santa Cruz shows, we did one of your songs, a Tiger Army song as well. We did "True Romance." Nick: That was a lot of fun. Davey: We also did that in Petaluma. And that was a lot of fun, too. All those shows were really fun. It was cool. Nick: I think so, too. Now, what are your plans, if any, for live shows during the year 2000? Adam: Almost immediately after getting out of the studio, we're going to Europe with Sick Of It All. I think the tour's gonna be about two weeks, two-and-a-half weeks. After Sick Of It All, we fly to London, and I think we play one show. And then from there, we're gonna play a show in Louisville, a festival called... Davey: Krazy Fest. Nick: Louisville, Kentucky? Adam: Yeah, Krazy Fest. We're gonna play that on the way home. After that, we're gonna do a Canadian tour in late June, early July, which will probably have a few U.S. dates. Perhaps Portland and Seattle on the way up to Canada. And then just a few on the way home, I don't know what those places are. But after that, we won't be playing any shows until our record comes out, and then you can expect a U.S. tour in the fall. Jade: You can expect us to be crashing off the road, because we'll be touring in the winter. Adam: Pretty much. Nick: Sounds good, except for the crashing part. [laughter] All right, now it's my understanding that you're going to be filming your third music video this week. Tell us about that... Hunter: It's going to be filmed by Brent... Nick: The Batboy. Davey: The Batboy. Hunter: On Super 8, which as you may or may not know is black-and-white and very old-school. So we're kinda playing up to that. We're gonna add some interesting dark old-school imagery. Nick: Mm-hmm. And what's the song? Davey: Oh, we're doing it for "Totalimmortal." Jade: [Johnny Carson voice] "Totalimmortal." [laughter] Nick: Spoken like a true Johnny Carson. All right, and what are your plans for this video? Davey: We really just wanted to do the video because there was no video documentation for any of the past two releases, and we had shot a video for "Very Proud Of Ya" and we shot a video for "Shut Your Mouth," so we wanted to do one for something more recent, as well. I think Nitro's going to do with it what they do with all the videos, they're going to send it- Jade: Public access TV. Davey: Yeah, I'm sure you'll probably be able to see it on public access, all those public access shows. And if Louis does another video compilation, hopefully he'll ask us to be on it again. Hopeless Records. So wherever you've seen our videos before, maybe you'll see this one. Nick: There you go. Okay, now there are a few questions I've got to ask. I know you've heard some of them many times, but they're asked with the idea that this is a definitive AFI interview, thus you can give the definitive answer. Dave, your lyrics make frequent allusion to religion. What are your thoughts on religion in general? Not necessarily organized religion... Davey: Religion in general, meaning... Nick: Okay, how about Christianity? Davey: Christianity. Christianity can work for some people. There are a lot of basic ideals in Christianity that I think are very positive. I think there's a lot of hypocrisy that is very obvious through the dogma. When looking at the dogma of Christianity, when you look at their actions and you look at their beliefs, they conflict at times. Christianity is a very strong force in the Western world, and I think it can be a dangerous thing, I think it can be a positive thing. It just depends on the individual. I think religion in general can also be a dangerous thing or positive thing, depending on what you take from it and depending on how you use it. Personally, I don't t subscribe to any one organized religion. Nick: Some of your merchandise bears the symbol of your pentagram, and some the legend "666." What do these things mean to you personally? Do they relate to your lyrics? Davey: In a sense they do, because I think both of them are images that evoke questioning of one's self, and I would hope that my lyrics do the same. Nick: Who to you is the Devil? [laughter] Davey: Who to me is the Devil? The Devil is Lucifer. Lucifer would be the light-bringer. He evokes change. He is the destroyer. Nick: Okay, I'm gonna give you a B-minus on that one. Davey: Okay. Nick: What's your definition of evil? Davey: All right, Nick. Nick: Come on, man. Davey: My definition of evil... oh my God. [muffled laughter] Evil is... okay, for me... Evil is self-destruction, disrespect, selfishness. It is complete disregard for your personal happiness, whether it's in yourself or whether it's in other people. Nick: Okay. Now, this is another question I'm sure you've heard before. Maybe you care to set the record straight. Is AFI a straight edge band? What do you think about straight edge as a movement? Davey: No, AFI is not a straight edge band. I think straight edge is a positive movement if it is done correctly, it if is real, if the people who are part of the movement actually believe in it and believe in is for the right reasons. I personally am straight edge. I think that there are a lot of straight edge kids who are true and are in it for the right reasons. I think there are a lot of kids who are not in it for the right reasons, and give straight edge a horrible, horrible name. Unfortunately, they're the ones who are focused upon the most often. They're the loudest, they're the loudest and they last the shortest amount of time. Nick: All right, explain the origins of the term "East Bay Hardcore." Davey: East Bay Hardcore originated... I think we stole it from this guy, Steve, who just started making East Bay Hardcore patches. And Screw 32 had it first. We co-opted it, and we use it for lack of a better means of describing exactly what type of music we play. It's hard to say... a punk-rocker will say we're not punk, a hardcore purist will say we're not hardcore. I don't care what you call us, so when people say "Well, what do you sound like, what do you play?" we say "Oh, we play East Bay Hardcore." Nick: It's just your own style. Davey: It's just our own style. Nick: Dave, does your girlfriend know that, according to some on the Internet, you're gay? [laughter] Davey: Yes. Yes, she does. Jade: She knows that he is, in fact, gay. Davey: Yes, she's very aware of that. Jade: She's just come to terms with it. Davey: But she loves me, anyway. [laughter] Nick: That's good, I hope you guys work things out. [laughter] Okay, now as a band, you have a pretty active presence on the Internet. You have an official website that's frequently updated. There are a lot of unofficial fan sites. What do you think about the whole on-line phenomenon in general? Jade: World Wide Web. [laughter] Davey: Oh, gosh. Hunter: I think it's as much of a blessing as it is bringing people together that wouldn't necessarily ever meet each other. It's also a curse, in the fact that it can be very gossipy and often at times a very small number of kids are controlling what a very large number of kids are reading. Davey: Yeah, I completely agree with Hunter on that. Fritch and I were talking about this the other day, and... I mean it is a great means of conveying information and getting news spread very quickly and very far and wide. However, a lot of times that news is the equivalent of tabloids. Although news is spread, it's like the National Inquirer. Nick: Sure. There's a lot of untruth in addition to the positive aspects. Davey: Exactly. Nick: Is there a message, political or otherwise, that you'd like to convey to your listeners? It could be inside or outside the music... Davey: I would really hope that through my lyrics, a lot of people would realize that there are others out there who feel the same way they do. My hope is that there are people who feel the same way I do in that respect. And that has been realized for me, in that very often kids come up to me and they say how much they appreciate my lyrics and how much they can relate to them. And I just hope that people can really start to focus on responsibility and respect for themselves and respect for others, and just really kind of look at the world in a different way then maybe they had before listening to us. Nick: Okay. Now outside of this interview, I've asked you to compile a list of your all individual all-time favorite albums. Aside from that stuff, what about stuff that you've been listening to lately? Davey: I was just listening to At The Drive-In. I was listening to Adam Ant a second ago. Adam AND The Ants. I was listening to Jane's Addiction and Hot Water Music and the new Nerve Agents. Nick: Mm-hmm. Just another motherfuckin' day, basically. Davey: Yeah, you know... Jade: Hot Water Music, Tiger Army, Dillinger Escape Plan. A little Get Up Kids, sometimes. A little this-and-that. A lil' sumpin' sumpin'. Nick: Uh-huh. Somethin' to listen to. Jade: Yeah. Nick: Hunter? Hunter: Let's see, uh... Prince's second album, entitled "Prince." Nick: A lot of people think that's his first album, but it's his second. Hunter: Yeah, it's his second. [laughter] Lonely Kings, Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, Refused. Nick: Cool, cool. Adam? Adam: Nerve Agents. Tiger Army, Elliot Smith, Radiohead, Hot Water Music. The list can go on. How much tape do you have? Nick: Okay. Well, we're getting ready to wind-up this definitive AFI interview for the new millennium. [laughter] Now, here's kind of a theoretical question for you guys- if you were going to be put to death by the state in the electric chair or whatever they use nowadays, what would you want for your final meal? Dave let's start with you... Davey: Of course, ask the vegan first. [laughter] Let me get over some moral shit while you're over there. [laughter] Nick: Yeah, would you sell out your "V"? Davey: I think I'd sell out the "V." I think I'd want one of my grandmother's Italian meals. I don't know which one, though, so give me a second. Hunter: Seeing as how I'm how a vegetarian because I don't like meat, I'd probably have to go with my all-time favorite meal: cereal. I'm not sure which one, though... that would be too tough to ask. Nick: All right. You'll have some time on death row to think about it, so... Hunter: Okay, cool. Adam: Just give me a moment here. Jade: I don't know if I would eat, because, you know like how you lose control of your bodily functions when they kill you? That would kind of... Nick: You're gonna die, though, so you know... Hunter: Yeah, it doesn't really matter. Jade: I want to have dignity in death, though. Davey: I'll eat the food. And I know what I want. If I was about to die, and I was gonna be probably dead [laughter], my grandmother's eggplant parmesan. If it could be given to me... Adam: How pathetic is a Round Table pizza? Nick: I don't know, what's on it? [laughter] Adam: Probably just cheese and olives. Jade: Pathetic... Hunter: Sounds good. Adam: You know, maybe some of my mom's tabouli, but that's about it. I don't know. Coca-Cola Classic. Jade: Oh, am I answering again? All right. Chicken and granola bars. Nick: And so like life, this interview must come to an end. Any final words for the Hit List readership? Adam: Thank you if you've read this entire interview. You can scope out the website at http://www.punkmusic.com/afi You can write to us at P.O. Box 4522, Berkeley, CA. 94704 If you do not send me a stamp, you will not get anything. You can put that in bold. [laughter] Hunter: If anyone's interested in Prince's central album, you might also want to check out my mp3.com site, it's at www.mp3.com/hunterrevenge Davey: Thanks! Jade: Check, please. [laughter] -The End-
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